A section of medical doctors launches campaign against starting Pharm D course in India

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The validity, necessity and promotion of the pharmacy course, Pharm D is being questioned by a section of the Kerala branch of QPMPA, the national level organisation of private medical practitioners. The association plans to set out a national level agitation against the promotion of the course by arguing that the advancement of the course will reduce the medical importance of the doctors. The move against the promotion of Pharm D was already kick-started in Kerala by one Dr Sushama Anil, doctor -cum-owner of a Kozhikode based hospital. The doctor is now engaged in the task of mobilizing doctors from other states to escalate the agitation into the level of a national struggle against Pharmacy Council of India. Dr Sushama Anil, a member of QPMPA has written an article in the monthly journal of the association in which she says that if the Pharm D is recognized and established by the government, and appointed those graduates in the hospitals as intermediaries between doctors and patients, the doctors community will lose the entire control of the medicines. Making a remark on the Pharm D graduates as 'pharma doctors', she says the total control of the drugs will be vested up on these 'compounders'. According to her, the pharmacists, whether B Pharm, M Pharm or Pharm D, are mere compounders. The article says that with the introduction of Pharm D, the Pharmacy Council of India is trying to bring back the extinct 'medical practice compounders into force.' This move of the PCI will pave the way for a tussle between doctors and 'pharma doctors' (pharmacists) for power, position and importance in the health sector, the doctor maintains through the article. Her argument is that the doctors should be the backbone of the healthcare system, nobody should be allowed to try to be at par with the doctors. According to her, the pharmacists ('pharma doctors') are vested with the roles of conducting patient's medication history review, medication order review, patient counselling, adverse drug reaction monitoring, therapeutic drug monitoring, ward rounds and providing drug information to the drug information centre, these are nothing to do with the pharmacists, but are the duties of the doctors. In such a situation, no medical representatives will approach the doctors and their knowledge about the new drugs cannot be updated. This will adversely affect in such a way that the doctors need only to diagnose or carry out the clinical procedures. "MBBS should be renamed as DBBS--Bachelor of Diagnosis and Bachelor of Surgery," the doctor said. Since there is the term 'Doctor' in the expansion of Pharm D, the person having the Pharm D qualification can use 'Dr' as prefix to his name. This is against the dignity of the doctors and the medical profession. Pharm D course is like the 'old wine in new bottle' as in olden days for want of doctors in rural areas, the compounders used to treat the patients, Dr Sushama wrote in the article. While speaking to Pharmabiz at the QPMPA national seminar in Thiruvananthapuram, Dr Sushma Anil said a pharmacist or a compounder cannot become a doctor, then why should he put the term 'Doctor' as prefix to his name. The doctor prefers to call the Pharm D graduates as 'compounders' rather than calling them as pharmacists. To support her argument, she asks whether a conductor can do the job of a driver. She is of opinion that even the doctors are old in age, they update their knowledge, but the compounders are not. Further she said the doctors are service oriented, but the pharmacists are business oriented. While arguing for the dignity of the doctors community, she said the Pharmacy Council of India has started the course on ego basis. "They (pharmacists) want to become above the doctors." Another allegation levelled against PCI, according to the article, is that the PCI's intention is to phase out gradually the three year B Pharm course by giving opportunity for the ongoing Pharmacy graduates to attain Pharm D. The article also exhorts the doctors' community to organize and fight together against the launching of the 3.5 year Rural Medical Services (BRMS). Source: http://pharmabiz.com/NewsDetails.aspx?aid=62937&sid=1 http://news.indiamart.com/story/kerala-branch-qpmpa-protests-against-pha...

Comments

Rajav Ardhana's picture

Dr Sushama Anil needs clarification about this pharm D course.This course is started to improve the quality of life of the patient.Now a days the doctors are in respectful position in the society and i think pharm D will not do any harm for their position in the society. One more request On what basis she is saying that all doctors are service oriented and pharmacists are business oriented.I am sure this is absolutely wrong statement.Some doctors also behaving Cheaply by forgetting their profession. I accept doctors are playing key role in health care of the patient but pharmacists also playing equal role in the health care system by giving good counseling,drug information and by educating the patient. Finally some section of doctors wants monopoly in the health care system.In my view its not good for the system because "A CLAP SOUND COMES WHEN TWO HANDS MEETS AT A TIME" So Pharmacists and Doctors should cooperate with each other for giving better quality of life to the needy people
Seetharam's picture

Yes, Mr.Rajvardan. Monopolism is a habitual of few doctors in our country Eg.Dr.Sushamaanil from kerala..Now a days it is not good and workout also.In any sector like Healthcare system theres NEEd a TEAMWORK..not a Bossism.
Dixon Thomas's picture

Science grow by specialization & super specialization, we need to be focused. Pharm.D makes better pharmacists, it will not make them like doctors. Doctors, Nurses, and Pharmacists have uniqe roles to play. Pharm.Ds are not to diagnosis and prescription writing, they assist physicians/surgens for safe and effective medical practive by clinical pharmacy opinions.

Mr. Dixon Thomas, M. Pharm, M. S., RPh Assoc. Prof., RIPER 

 

Bhupendra's picture

it is unfortunate that a doctor (Sushma Anil) is of the opinion that Pharm D course will reduce the importance of Doctors. If she is worrying then its her personal problem why she is talking on behalf of an association. She is perhaps forgetting that her prime importance should be well being of patients. Saying a Pharm D a compounder only shows her ignorance about development of Pharmacy profession in other words she do not know meaning of pharmacy or pharmacist. I would like to let her know that PCI has already recognised the course and there is no need of any other recognition to this course. PCI is an organisation like that of MCI which has given her power to prefix word pharmacist. Likewise PCI has power to register pharmacists. Pharmacist in govt. hospitals helps doctors to let make their treatment successful. Its pharmacist who put a final check on the prescription of a doctor. If pharmacist do not dispense medicine according to prescription entire treatment will fail. Therefore, there is no need for pharmacists to prove their importance. Pharmacists are an important part of health system that is why Drugs and Cosmetics Act and Pharmacy Act gives power ONLY TO PHARMACISTs to handle medicines. Only a pharmacist manufacture, distribute, store and dispense medicines and any other person whether he is a doctor will be an offence.

General Secretary Indian Pharmacist Association (IPA) http://www.ipa.medlineindia.com

SS Md Shafi's picture

yeah.... After going through 7th paragraph ,i think Dr. sushma need to use psycho drugs for her abnormal behaviour. a CONDUCTOR can drive the bus in real life if he deserves. but a doctor can not replace the place of a pharmacist who has awarded SEVEN STARS by THE CENTRAL GOVT.(ex: police officer having some stars on his shoulder)

shafi ..

Vtharavath's picture

You seem to be already on such drug dear.....
SS Md Shafi's picture

Dear mam... if i hurted you really i'm sorry..

shafi ..

Sandhya Sravya malla's picture

It's an highly acceptable thing that the doctors has everything to do with the health of the people,but it doesn't mean solely that they are the owners of the public health.Its is not a matter of conversation regarding the greatness of the B.PHARM/M.PHARM/PHARM.D and M.B.B.S.its the matter of serving the people about their health.in this context why is she so worried about dignity of her profession???A real doctor always worries about whether she/he is justifying his/her profession or not ,but the pathetic thing is that she is worrying about the prefix of her profession.......really feeling sad to hear such things from a doctor.here we can have 2 ways ..............whether she is feeling insecure of her fame or she intentionally wanna blame the PHARMACY profession.she must realize that.the competition is so intense that everyone runs after name or fame and she proved that DOCTORS are not less than anyone.we the future pharmacists don't creep for name or fame ,just the service rendered to people by provding them with required amount of drugs by following ETHICS is our duty.we even dont wanna blame Dr.SUSHMA.its the ignorance of an highly educated professional.............thus i conclude......... m.sandhyasravya PHARMAWARRIORS
Siva Mavuduru's picture

don't forget.. "a doctor gives life through a drug. but the pharmacist gives life to a drug" don't forget madam sushma, to the so called doctor, a pharmacist (Medical Representative) has to advice regarding the latest advances related to drugs? if we are eligible to advice a doctor, are we not worthy of advising a patient? first of all Sushma has to know that Pharma D is approved by the developing countries too. this course is intended to improve the health of the patient. she has to remember that the pharmacist is the one who is trying to invent and discover new drugs against various diseases but the doctors. and its a fact that the doctor profession is more commercialized. they are doing business even with small kids. And I am not able to understand why is she worried about 'Dr' prefix that much. even a Ph. D in any sector student is having is the prefix 'Dr'. won't it cause any to the profession of doctor? silly agitation.
Dixon Thomas's picture

We don't want the patient to be confused when they hear Doctor. Doctor for lay language is the treating physician or surgen. For the patient or public we shall not say we are doctor, that will confuse them. They do not realize the difference of Pharm.D Dr, or PhD Dr. So better, while talking to a patient, shall not use Dr.

Mr. Dixon Thomas, M. Pharm, M. S., RPh Assoc. Prof., RIPER 

 

Shouvik's picture

Please convey my msg to all the pharma comunity so that no dissolution of pharmacy profession takes place in future........ Really please think more and more on this topic as you r having ms degree, i think u might have done it from us or other foreign countries. U might have seen there pharmacy systems, in us a doctor is not permitted to keep medicines with him/her if the pharmacy is within 5 kms., otherwise the doctor would be penalised for the same, further in other countries doctors only prescribe the medicines but the name of drug which is written on the prescription should be its generic name and the pharmacist must dispense the best brand by considering financial status of the patient, since as said by dr. S anil that we are buisness oriented obviously we have much more idea about patients economic conditions rather than there health conditions, so its not doctors duty 2 decide about the patients economic condition rather a doctor must concentrate more on health condition of patients, therefore dispensing medications and writing brand name on prescription by doctors should be made banned by indian govt...........as u can see in the statement of dr. S anil that no mr's will meet them in future and this will make there role to dissappear, so from this statement of dr. S anil it implies now she is very buisness oriented not patient care oriented.........definitely it should be discontinued by the govt. That the meeting of mr's with the doctor........rather they should meet with the pharmacist......as doctor's should give first to last priority in dealing with patient and not with mr's...................................pls think over it......

$houvik

Dr Girija Sankar's picture

Well, in my view PharmaD is related to 1. Clinical Pharmacy - where one deals with fixing dose, Therapeutic Drug Monitoring for inpatients etc 2. Hospital Pharmacy- where one has a key role in monitoring the drugs in a hospital such as labelling, arranging etc. 3. Community pharmacy - where a pharmacist is on screen discussing with the public. Introduction of PharmaD course in India has got no intention of ruling out the doctors instead it avoids the self medication evil that is prevailing in our society. A doctor has got the prime entity of diagnosis which may be given by the patients through direct communication or from the laboratory checking of biological fluids. In this regard i wanted to share a simple live example. Recently i happened to meet a famous endocrinologist in Visakhapatnam. He prescribed the drug Metformin 1000mg extended release tablet for a diabetic patient. A couple of days later, he complained of the hypoglycemic condition. To my surprise the doctor said, take half of the tablet. Shocking...isnt it?? What is the use of halving the tablet when it is clearly mentioned that its an Extended Release Tablet?? I must say, in this regard the Pharmacists play a key role. The doctor 's position is a unique one! That cannot be replaced in case of surgeries and knowing the anatomy of the patient. Well, with these rallies and protests i dont think the lady can change the fact but definitely can gather a crew.

Dr.G.Girija Sankar, Associate Professor Department of Pharmaceutical Biotechnology, College of Pharmaceutical Science, Andhra University.

Shouvik's picture

Dear bloggers i have read all of your blogs so pls read my blog then take the decision whether dr. Sushma anil is right or wrong. Strictly speaking pci has started this course for the sake of only profit making bcose first of all this course is majorly started in south india parts including one college in maharshtra and that too in private colleges....bcose president of pci is from private college......so no initiative is taken by any other government college. Dr. B suresh also mentioned that this course is launched in india bcose of pressures from world health organisation, bcose of poor health condition in india. Even countries like pakistan and afganistan also runs this kind of courses since a long time back, so its a definite shame for india. The pharm.d course is launched not only by pci, the pci has also took permission from mci for practice in hospital pharmacy setup and the hospital should be recognised by mci.....so its not only the duty of pci to educate the peoples and future pharmacist for this course, therefore it is also necessary for mci to educate about this course to doctors...dont u feel frnz.... Further, each and every healthcare professional should respect each other by there own way bcose each and every healthcare professional is unique on its own kind, so i think dr. Sushma anil has used the rite words in a wrong way i.e., whether d/b/m/doctor/doctorate in pharmacy are compounders........ya definitely we are compounders now the term pharmacist are used as such earlier the doctors are known as vaidyas(unrecognised internationally now as far as india is concerned)...... Further, here the story begins.....when two cats are fighting for one chapati then monkey comes and try to divide it into equal parts by eating a bit bit bit bit from each of the two parts.....same as like here.....doctors and pharmacist are fighting but govt is acting like a monkey......bcose they are getting money while approving a college...... First of all the pharmacy profession in india is only the profession which has no definition from the govt, as you can see in most pharma industries bsc and msc peoples are employed every where, they are also eligible for fda licensing as per govt rules. More faults of govt are as follows: 1. A hospital does not require any pharmacy license from fda for selling drugs, so a hospital can make buisness, as said by dr. Sushma anil that pharmacist are buisness oriented, here in hospital the pharmacist doesnt play any role, bcose it is not even mandatory for hospital to run the pharmacy by registered pharmacist. 2. A doctor can keep medicine with him and even he can dispense medicine, as mentioned by dr.s anil, that we are compounders then y they want to become compounders by dispensing medications to the patient when they have well qualified mbbs/md/ms/mch/dnb/dm/fcps membership and degrees. So definitely even the compounders also should take move against doctors. These rules should be made applicable by govt. On practice of doctors, dont u feel so frnz............. 3. A bsc or btech in chemical engg. A mbbs/bams/bhms doctor can open a pharmaceutical industry as per d&c act, again here also dr. S anil wants to become compounder while having mbbs/md/dnb degree.........so dont u feel frnz............revision should be made by govt in 21st century free modern india???????????? 4. A drug inspector can visit and inspect the areas such as pharmacy shops and industry.......but what abt doctors when they keep fake medicines with them......this happens still now in india where the doctor charges only rs.20/30 per visit bcose he/she gives fake medicines manufactured in his home unsterile condition............no legislation by the govt on them and even a drug inspector cannot visit a doctors area to check his/her license......again here also the doctors again want to become compouder....... 5. Teachers in pharm.d colleges are m.pharm & ph.d only.......there are only few pharmacy colleges where doctors take visiting lectures for few subjects rather than rendering full time service in pharmacy college.....pci has not drafted any such recomendations for teachers teaching a particular subjects in pharm.d curriculum...............so it shows ignorance of govt to such a course.. 6. When govt annonces vacancies in drug inspector/govt analyst apart from bpharm the qualifications include the mbbs/bsc/msc..... So again an eg. That a doctor becoming a compounder......also it shows no regulations over pharmacy profession even a degree in bsc or msc also can practise pharmacy........dont u feel so frnz.... 7. Niper, so much reputed pharmacy institute from govt. Also takes mbbs/bams/bvsc graduates into mpharma course............again, a doctor is becoming a compounder.......... 8. A lot of such examples i can cite.......but what will happen the govt. Will always be a part of corruption, by playing tricks such as introducing pharm.d course.... Ultimately what will happen frnz......the govt is allowing pharmacist to practise the profession of doctor and it is also allowing bsc/msc/ engineering graduates to practice our profession ie. Pharmacy profession. The indian govt. Simply wants to imply if a(doctors)=b(pharmacist) and if b(pharmacist)=c(bsc/msc/engg. Graduates), it means a c(science/engg graduate) = a(doctor).......just think over it....... In psychiatry a term known as multiple personality disorder, where a man is having a multiple personality same is done by the govt of india ie. Multiple professional disorder....means a single science graduate can have multiple professions....... I think its a high time that all the pharmacist needs to understand its importance and we should take a move against govt.......that day is not far when dissolution of pharmacy profession will take place.........just think frnzz........and pls send me comments at careersafterpharmacy@gmail.com

$houvik

Shouvik's picture

All healthcare professions are dedicated towards patient health, and no healthcare professional should humilate each other...........ya i very well admit the term used by dr. S anil to describe pharmacist that is compounder is very wrongly used in her statement......but same is here in this website too..............we are just humilating each other for sake of buisness rather than delivering healthcare services to patient..........................................first of all no role is described by the govt. For each and every profession bcose dr. S anil says if pharm.d were allowed to practice medicines then mbbs should be renamed as dbbs ie. Bachelor of diagonosis and bachelor of surgery.......if it get renamed like that by govt even then dr. Sushma anil will again fight with the other paramedical profession ie> those who have done bsc medical lab technology, because nowadaz they are involved in diagnosis of disease....................ultimately upto what extent she can fight......................................... So best way is always respect each others profession, and dont humilate each other......................rather we should oppose the govt. Together for a such an undefined system..................pls frnz.............think over it............. SO BEST WAY IS ALWAYS RESPECT EACH OTHERS PROFESSION, AND DONT HUMILATE EACH OTHER......................RATHER WE SHOULD OPPOSE THE GOVT. TOGETHER FOR A SUCH AN UNDEFINED SYSTEM..................PLS FRNZ.............THINK OVER IT.............

$houvik

Sirisha Pingali's picture

Hi shouvik, After reading the above article none of the readers particularly the pharma field will not think on the side you are saying!! Its not that they are narrow minded but anything that is pointing the profession makes it pounding scene!! The doctor that too highly qualified and very well acknowledged, thinking in such a way is tickling!!! But as you have said, the points are pretty true!! Now that we cant set right the government laws, i think we should place the issue in front of PCI where the either sides can be discussed!! As siva said, the prefix thing and all is a childish fight!! Lets hope the whole catfight cools down in a righteous manner!! Great sight from your side!! Thank you for sharing the views!!!

Sirisha Pingali

http://www.pharmainfo.net/sirisha

Viswanadha Institute of Pharmaceutical Sciences.

www.vnips.edu.in

Shouvik's picture

a very very thanx to u 4 understanding me and pharmacist sitution...............pls dont get cool so that the govt get the chance once again................rather we should try to put this situation in front of pci....but in what way.....from my side i tried alot...but due to my single voice dr. b suresh had never answered me.......here i am getting a platform 2 express my views, so that i can make u all pharmacist aware that wat harms r done by govt. on us......if u get cool like this by writing such a msg to me ultimately nothing will happen...pci will never understand the issue if the disscusssion begins....because myself has kept this question about pharm.d many a times in front of pci.....jst trust, if u dont den pls ask dis question to pci that "what is the motive behind introduction of this Pharm.D course?" i can definitely guarantee u that they will unable 2 provide u satisfactory answer...........or else ask this question 2 any teacher serving in pharm.d colleges, then u vil understand wat is the situation....its not the first tym that doctors r ashaming us its only the pharmacist's those who r humilating the another pharmacist......if dr. b suresh understands this situation he would have been never started with this course.............................jst rethink on wat i said with ur minds and also with ur frnz minds, then arrive onto a rite situation.......

$houvik

Sravani kompella's picture

Pharm D is a course which brings new pharmacists into the era who can minimise the errors which are being done by doctors in many instances...She can't call them as compounders because in earlier days compounding of medicines was done but now we are getting completely sterlized and pure drug with entire information regarding its shelf life ,duration,onset of action and other clinical data with the help of pharmacists.I think doctors can read a patient but they will know nothing about the pharmacokinetic aspects of a drug which is made aware by a pharmacist. Moreover surgeries are carried only by a doctor and even registered pharmacists, pharm D graduates are not allowed to do. Unfortunately in India people are not aware of the -->hardwork done by a pharma company in moulding a raw constituent into a useful medicine -->hardwork done by a pharmacist in carefully monitoring the patient,and being cautious in giving medicine. but they will merely praise a doctor for just checking and giving the medicine which is suggested by a pharmacist who is back of the entire play...
Prof. J. Vijaya Ratna's picture

Dear Mr. Bhupendra It is very good that you brought this to the attention of the pharmacy community. Introduction of Pharm D course is a major change that is happening in the healthcare sector in India and any change always invites opposition and hurdles. If the majority feels strong about the goals, then they must face the hurdles, head on, overcome them and move ahead. I think the reason why Pharm D is introduced in India, is to fill a gap in the healthcare field; to give better pharmaceutical care to the patientt; to ensure better patient compliance; to help the doctor in choosing medicines in certain critical situations where the pharmacokinetics of the drug and the properties of the novel drug delivery system are understood only by a highly trained pharmacist. There may be other reasons but these are the important ones. I think PCI is making an attempt to put Indian pharmacists on a global footing. By doubting their intentions and our capabilities and by bowing to obstructions, we can undermine that attempt. By giving them our best support, we may all see a day where Pharm D graduates flourish and play a major role in hospital settings, like they are doing in other countries now. I want to share two experiences with all of you. We started a drug information and patient counseling center in KGH,VSP as a part of our Pharm D programme. We go there every Thursdayand carry out patient counseling specially focusing on diabetes. One day the diabetes op was shifted and our scholar found that many patients were sitting on the floor as they waited for the doctors and to give them counseling, our students were also sitting on the floor. He came and told me and I told him to meet the doctor, endocrinologist, Dr. Subraahmanyam. My scholar told the doctor about the situation and asked him whether we may make some arrangements where our students may sit in chairs and do their work. The doctor said " Oh, yes, go ahead. Why did'nt you tell me earlier that your students are ready to give counseling? If you people are there, I will tell the patients "Go and meet the chinna doctarlu (small doctors). They will tell you many things." It is my fault that after this assurance I could not take the students to the hospital or make any arragement. There are many problems from our side too. Every dynamic situation is like this. Second experience: One day as our students were counseling, they encountered a patient with some problem and they brought him to our assistant professor, Dr. Eswara Kumar who was supervising counseling on that day. The patient was taking sorbitrate sublingual tablets and was getting headaches and didnt know what to do about it. He asked the doctors but did not get proper answer. Then Eswara Kumar told him " You are getting headache because of vasodilation. By that time action of the drug is over and you may spit the tablet out. That is why such drugs are given as sublingual, so that quick action is there and you can spit out when action is over to escape from unnecessary side effect." The patient went away, very happy. THAT IS PHARMACY IN ITS RIGHT PLACE FOR YOU. I want to conclude by saying that I personally see a positive attitude from the side of the doctors. Just as they are making use of the advances in the diagnostic tools in diagnosis, they will accept the Pharm D people as the people who know about the novelties in medicines. What we must do with the doctor is, take her appointment, meet her, and explain and convince her that Pharm D in not clashing with the space of doctors, Doctors place in healthcare is unique and unassailable. We should not clash with her. Regarding government'role, I admit that I don't have answers to all questions. Govt. has to deal with politics and politics is ununderstandable to me. Vijaya Ratna
Shouvik's picture

ur comment about this topic is highly apprciable from my side.............ur answer is awesome....absolutely these are the role of pharmacist.this phase of pharmacist was established in us, uk, ussr, australia and lot many countries. still u have said dat motive of introducing pharm.d 4m govt. is unclear, i accept dat it has 2 go 4m so much of politics n al. but 1 question still exist in my mind, y not this knowledge is introduced in b.pharm curriculum.......they have designed b.pharm curriculum in such a way that it doesnt fit for industry as well as for clinical or community setup.....rathe govt. is imparting a mixed knowledge making pharmacist a jacks of all but masters of none.......it remains a big question 4m govt. side.....

$houvik

Prof. J. Vijaya Ratna's picture

Dear Shouvik In India, we are training b.Pharm graduates mostly for the industry. The subjects of Hospital Pharmacy, Clinical Pharmacy and community pharmacy are taught so that a B.Pharm graduate can take on those roles where necessary but the main thrust of B.Pharm is towards the industry. Please remember that all these three subjects were added to B.Pharm curriculum about two decades ago. Earlier, it was totally focussed on the industry. Only, in India, you see a pharmaceutical industry in which you find so many pharmacy people. You don't find this in any other country. This is a great achievement of the Pharmacy colleges and pharmacy academicians in this country. So B.Pharm and M.Pharm structure should go on and give many more pharmacy technologists/analysts/chemists/pharmacologists/pharmacognosists and biotecnologists to this country. W@e are very clear about the roles of B.Pharmand M.Pharm structure and Pharm D structure. Both are needed here in this country. Vijaya Ratna
V Hari Kiran's picture

Thank you for your valueable information with good examples madam.

Harikiran

G.Sailesh's picture

Pharm.D course was started in our college when I was about to complete my B.pharm in 2009. Even though, subjects like Hospital pharmacy, clinical pharmacy are present at B.pharm level, I have never shown interest on them and never thought of them. But, I used to say to my friends about the people joining in pharm.D. How can we expect that doctors allow us into hospital? Till date, they are the only people who deal with medicine related information. As there are no pharmacy colleges or pharmacy people earlier, its very hard to find the qualified people in a hospital pharmacy or a community pharmacy. Even though one finds a qualified person (only D.pharm person), he hardly knows about patient counselling or ADRs. Positive side of starting Pharm D. course is the change in health care system. Negative side of this is that the course was started only for getting money to private colleges. Another angle in this is the course was started to make student eligible to practice pharmacy in US. Can all the 60 students who joined in pharm.D afford to go to US? Whatever the reason for starting this course, ultimate sufferer is the student. I do not know what is the future of a pharm.D student after a long suffering of 6 years in college and Hospital. Is he able to fetch a job in Hospital in which physicians are dominant? This is the live example for it. Things are changing rapidly. I think we are in a transition state and looking towards a better health care system as in US. Other than blaming doctors like Dr.Sushma, it is the duty of PCI who initiated the course to talk to Government and clearly define the role of a pharmacist in health care system. The student completing pharm.D should get a respectable position and salary in hospital. It really hurts that Dr.Sushma anil calling pharmacist as compounder. I do not know what is wrong in putting Dr. as even the professors completing Ph.D also prefixing doctor before their name. No one can replace the position of doctor in prescribing medicines or doing surgeries. I think she need not to worry about that. We are not asking her place, but asking to provide a respectable place and make us a part of health care system as in other developed countries.

The attitude of PCI is like; we are introducing a course and also increasing the number of colleges. It is the duty of student who completed the course to get jobs in industry or to go to US. Even, there is no clarity if it accepts this degree or not. But, what is the use of increasing the number of colleges without requirement of them in industry or hospitals? We became completely dependent on industries or hospitals. We have to beg them for jobs. They are throwing us jobs if they like and using services for lesser remuneration as there is high demand for jobs. Can anyone please tell me about the situations prevailing earlier when these number of pharmacy colleges are not present? There is a big doubt in mind. Whether the students are to be produced as per the demand and requirements in industry or the increased number of students should search for a place in industry or hospital where they may be suitable. Can anyone please clarify this doubt?

Dr. T.E.G.K. Murthy's picture

It is advisable to clarify the concepts rather than fighting against each other, so that we can serve the patient community much effectively.Some of the statements made by her like "Pharmacist are nothing but compounders" are highly objectionable.Pharmacy is also a dignified course studied all around the world, but such recognition is abolished in India and treated as layman by Dr.Sushama Anil.It is not the matter of prefix or suffix, the duty is to serve the community.May be as she stated the term compounders does not require any qualification, it is acquired on practice.Whereas the term Pharmacist is dignified and requires mandatory completion of either D.Pharm/B.Pharm/Pharma.D etc under these circumstances how can a pharmacist be humiliated by such people who are really unaware of the actual importance of the role of a pharmacist in the system of health care.The Pharmacy course is also governed by PCI, a statutory body similar to MCI.I am really surprised to hear that doctors are service oriented and pharmacist are business oriented, the real public only should justify the statement.I really don't understand why Dr.Sushama Anil is under estimating the ability of doctors by comparing with the allied departments.We pharmacist have no intention to insult the physician, of course they are much required to perform their specialization nobody else can perform such things .This concept should be well understood by our Dr.Shuhama Anil.An effective health care system can function only on mutual coordination of various departments involving specialist like MBBS, MD, DM, Anesthesiology, Radiology, Clinical pathology, Biochemist, Microbiologist, Pharmacologist, Pharmacist, Nursing etc.It is like one body with various organs and its own unique functions.Each one has their own importance, not all can be performed by doctors alone.If he is going to perform everything then he should be god and not human.The physician is duly responsible for writing the prescription but when the matter of dispensing the same is discussed, the patients are totally unaware of certain outcomes of drug formulation pattern , dosing pattern, their side effects,adverse reactions, drug interaction frequency etc.For eg.Mouth dissolving tablets prescribed by the doctors and swallowed with water by the patient, drugs are consumed with tea,milk,cool drinks,alcohol etc, antibiotics are discontinued with out completing the course,the efficacy of a sustained release formulation is quite different when they are administered with alcohol compared to water, like which so many examples can be added.All these things are happening because of the lack of awareness and actual knowledge.This can be completely rectified by effective involvement of a pharmacist.We should live and let others live such attitude should be cultivated in those unaware minds.Nobody can curb the importance of others.The course will actually help to bridge the gap existing between the physician and the pharmacist.This is already well understood in well developed countries but why our country India is lagging behind is we don't accept the facts and change immediately.It is just a course with its own morals and i state that it is not a fight or comparison between physician and pharmacist.I hope the mental attitude should change for the co-existence to survive and deliver a better health care system on par with western countries.In my opinion i would advice to establish a medico-pharma interaction cell in order to avoid such misinterpretation among the peers of effective health care system.

Dr.T.E.G.K.Murthy
http://www.pharmainfo.net/tegkmurthy/biography
Principal
Bapatla College of Pharmacy, Bapatla

Bhupendra's picture

I invite Dr. Sushma ( drsushamaanil@gmail.com ) here to prove that what she has told is correct. If she is not correct then she should apologies for her comments.

General Secretary Indian Pharmacist Association (IPA) http://www.ipa.medlineindia.com

Vtharavath's picture

Dear bhupendra.. I am a doctor employed in a well known hospital here...If you wish I will be able to answer your queries on the significance of Pharm-D persons in the health sector in Indian scenario. I had lot of mail exchange with Dr.SushamaAnil in this regard. I believe that she is a busy doctor... Pls let me know.. My e-mail is vtharavath@gmail.com Regards Dr.Vtharavath
Bhupendra's picture

Dear Dr. Vtharavath, It is nice that you are ready to understand what the pharmacists (not compounders) are trying to say. We are objecting her comments that whatever the qualification of a Pharmacist is, he or she is not more than a compounder. I would like to draw to your kind attention that it's pharmacist who manufacture/store/dispense a medicine. Manufacturing license is issued to only a pharmacist. If pharmacists stop manufacturing medicine how will a doctor treat a patient. I am not disrespecting doctors but at the same time we 'pharmacists' can not digest the word Compounder to be used for Pharmacists. PCI is a statutory body like MCI. PCI works for upgrading the pharmacy profession like MCI do. Then why Dr. Sushma has objection if PCI wants to improve the pharmacy profession. Ultimately patients or Indian health system is going to be benefited from it.

General Secretary Indian Pharmacist Association (IPA) http://www.ipa.medlineindia.com

VOLETI VIJAYA KUMAR's picture

Doctor gives life to patients by
giving medicine, But a Pharmacist gives life to that medicine

A pharmacist's responsibility is not only the preparing the drugs which are prescribed by a general practitioner or other health professional, but also to deliver optimal pharmaceutical care, by assessing the suitability of the medication for a particular patient, taking into account their medical history, as well as possible side effects and interactions with other drugs that are being used. In my view some of doctors are behaves like pure commercial persons, they just want to get money, they are not obeying their laws and principles also. The duty of physician is to diagnoses the patient and writes the Prescription, but A pharmacist is always provide awareness to patients while dispensing the medication to the patient, he only knows the side effects, dosage, adverse reactions and drug interactions. All pharmacists should realise and lets spread our importance in health are system.

VIJAYA KUMAR.VOLETI M.Pharmacy

Asst Professor

Raos college of Pharamcy

Nellore

Vtharavath's picture

Have you seen CIMS dear? Even 'Pharmacists' use it......
Shouvik's picture

I AM NOT GOING TO COMMENT U ON THIS TOPIC, I SAY THAT I BEING A PHARMACIST I SUPPORT YOU, BUT PLS DONT SAY THE HARSH WORDS SUCH AS CULTURELESS TO PHARMACY PROFESSION. PARALLELY TO DOCTORS WE ARE ALSO HIGHLY CULTURED, AN ALSO I REQUEST YOU THAT PLS DONT USE HARSH WORDS FOR MY PHARMACIST FRIENDS. I AM WORKING NOW AS MEDICAL REPRESENTATIVE THATS BECAUSE OF OUR GOVT. FAULT BECAUSE PHARMACY PROFESSION IS SOMETHING THAT A SCIENCE GRADUATE CAN VERY WELL PLAY OUR ROLE, AS PRE DETERMINED BY GOVT. NOW GOVT IS DOING, A BSC/MSC CAN DO A JOB OF A PHARMACIST AND PHARMACIST CAN DO A JOB OF A DOCTOR, ie. if A=B & B=C, then A=C. ie. after few days govt. will say that a bsc/msc can practice medicine. the profession of pharmacy which is well accepted, recognised and saluted in other countries that profession has got dissolution in INDIA. whenever i meet a doctor in the clinic for advertisement of my medicines, really speaking if money is not offered to them then they dont even entertain, thats the truth of mbbs and so on profession........................seriously speaking nowadays all the doctors are buisnessmen/women nowadays........dats y various doctors r concerned about there profession, but still i will say the supreme position should be give to doctors. and the pharmacy system in india shud be made as per other foreign countries where doctor only prescribes the medicine i.e. the molecule/s and brand should be given by pharmacist, so that their work then gets divided, and there supremacy is not lost. AND PLS FRNZ DONT MAKE THIS PLACE A HANG FOR SOCIAL FIGHT........... AND DEAR DOCTORS PLS DONT OPEN ANY FAKE ID'S FOR FIGHTING WITH OTHER HEALTHCARE PROFESSIONALS BECAUSE EACH ONE IS IMPORTANT IN THE SOCIETY AND ONE HC PROFESSION CANNOT LIVE WITHOUT OTHER........SO LETS HAVE A RESPECT FOR EACH OTHER............ AND PLS PHARMACIST FRNZ....GREET THE DOCTOR BY WISHING HIM/HER FOR DOCTOR'S DAY COMING ON 1ST JULY.....

$houvik

Dr samrat paul's picture

"I AM WORKING NOW AS MEDICAL REPRESENTATIVE THATS BECAUSE OF OUR GOVT. FAULT BECAUSE PHARMACY PROFESSION IS SOMETHING THAT A SCIENCE GRADUATE CAN VERY WELL PLAY OUR ROLE, AS PRE DETERMINED BY GOVT. NOW GOVT IS DOING, A BSC/MSC CAN DO A JOB OF A PHARMACIST AND PHARMACIST CAN DO A JOB OF A DOCTOR, ie. if A=B & B=C, then A=C. ie. after few days govt. will say that a bsc/msc can practice medicine." well said !!!Now people will get taste of their own medicine. In India, Policy makers are just...most of the times I dont understand them!!

samrat

Shouvik's picture

only a pharmacist can only understand my situation, the pharmacy council of india is only playing with the emotions of ours.................GATE examinations has been stoped by IITS because they say that the quality of pharmacy education in india is not good and they cannot conduct simple tests for the name of GATE examinations because they are confused that what to ask in the paper........welll when this pharmacy profession got a kick of from engineers now the council is targetting into the medical profession, & now we pharmacy ppl also getting a tight kick from medical profession too..............................then after so much hues & cries, its high tym that we shud all realise and ask the govt...............................that WHAT IS OUR PROFESSION N WHAT PLACEWE HAVE IN THE SOCIETY ? AND I THINK THE GOVT. IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THERE SUCH A SHAMEFUL SITUATION..............................WHENN THEY ONLY DONT KNOW WHAT IS THE PROFESSION OF PHARMACY..................THEN Y DID THEY STARTED THIS COURSE.....?

$houvik

Vtharavath's picture

Dear Bhupendra. Your intention is very clear from the intensity of collective response of your community in the blog. Whatever the technical justification you provide for the introduction of Pharm-D, it is not difficult to understand the intention behind it. You are very well aware of this fact, I know. I should say that your response when Dr.Sushama referred you as compounders is similar to that of a barber when he is called as barber in the present day situation. He will shout at you that you should call him only Hair Dresser. (Don't get offended. I have given an example for your collective and offensive response regarding her reference) Similarly one should call a farmer as an agriculturalist and a carpenter as an interior decorator etc. If not, they will respond like you. I have a few things to ask you: 1. What is the real function of a pharmacist in the Pharmacy or Medical shop in our country (and not in US - we are not at that level)? 2. What is the definition given for a Pharmacist as per Drug Act and Pharmacy Act? 4. Whether the pharmacists are carrying out the entire job defined for them in these Acts in the health care chain? 5. No body prevents you from manufacturing drugs or selling drugs. 7. As per Dr.Sushamaanil, she had given the reference of pharmacists as compounders which is the true definition by law. Whatever is your qualification, your function as a pharmacist in the health care system doesn't change. 8. Why you are getting agitated when she called you by your job profile? Do you feel your job is so inferior? 9. You should have read her article with an open mind and then respond .You have responded with a 'complex' in your mind. 10. Have you gone through the Pharm-D regulations approved by the GOI. Any one with basic intelligence can understand what the intention is. 11. Please don't try to create artificial requirements in the health care system saying that PCI is upgrading the Pharmacy profession. In this matter I received good Mails from Dr.Sushamaanil. 12. Doctors are not questioning your importance and qualifications. They question only your unwanted interference in the health care system for 'position'. Till now, you are really not in the health care system. So you don't know the real requirements in the system. You try to create and grab positions in Indian health care system. From the health care point of view, you are only for selling the drugs and that too by law. 13. Dear Bupendra, you have stated in your blog about the situation in which a pharmacist doesn't manufacture medicines. Please keep in mind that for the drug manufacturing companies the requirement of a pharmacist is not essential. Without pharmacist they can produce drugs. But only by law your seat became mandatory in the manufacturing companies. So when ever there is a change in law your position also will change. This may be the reason for your struggle to have a position at par with the doctors. If your service is an unavoidable factor in the practical sense and not by any law, you will get an appropriate seat as per the importance. You need not fight for it. So don't try to fool yourself by big words. What can you do without our diagnosis and prescriptions? According to Dr.Sushamaanil, a pharmacist is only the job reference and not dependent on qualification. If any one, whether M-Pharm or B-Pharm graduates, assumes a job of a Pharmacist, his job is compounding, stock and selling medicines. Hence she referred pharmacists as compounders with respect to the health care system. Otherwise you have to specify your function presently in the treatment chain. In my opinion the pharmacist cannot even be called as compounders as he is not doing any compounding of drugs. In reality he is not doing anything more in the drug store than a normal person/ an experienced person can do. For more clarity.... An M pharm post graduate who works as a lecturer need not be a pharmacist. He will be referred as pharmacist only when he assumes the job of a pharmacist in the health system after the required registration with MCI. When he enters in to health system as pharmacist then he becomes a 'compounder' by job. Hope you can understand things now..... But unfortunately, today pharmacists need not do compounding work. Then what is his job function. I can tell you ..he do nothing. He is simply a holder of Drug license...Even the packing and dispensing drug is carried out by experienced helping staff in the pharmacies. Tell me one more thing that in a whole sale shop there is no need of a pharmacist by law and what will happen if that is continued in the retail shop also, in the present situation of the healthcare system? Understand that no one will be willing to escalate the cost of treatment by adding avoidable heavy weight entities like Pharm-D in the health care system. Or You must define your real job function as a pharmacist in the present day health care system of India through this blog
Bhupendra's picture

Dear vtharavath, A compounder is a person who prepares a medicine by combining two or more ingredients. Or we can say that a compounder is a person who do compounding. Today no pharmacist do compounding he or she only dispenses medicines. Drugs and Cosmetics Act, 1940 and Pharmacy Act 1948 clearly states that a person who dispense medicine is a Pharmacist and no where word "compounder" is used. Then using word "compounder" for pharmacist is clearly violation of these two acts. Now I will answer you one by one. 1) Function of a pharmacist is to dispense medicines to patients. He also checks for any error in prescription.(I know you will not agree that errors occurs in prescription but I can show a number of prescription with errors in my support). 2) According to pharmacy act 1948: "registered pharmacist" means a person whose name is for the time being entered in the register of the State in which he is for the time being residing or carrying on his profession or business of pharmacy. 3) Perhaps this number do not exist as per your counting. 4) Pharmacists are carrying out more than specified in these acts. In rural areas where doctors do not like to work Govt. Pharmacists are the only hope for those poor peoples. 5) Your question is not clear. 6) Perhaps this number do not exist as per your counting. 7) Show me the law which define a pharmacist as a compounder. You can read Drugs and Cosmetics Act and Pharmacy Act where only the word Registered Pharmacist is mentioned. A role of pharmacist changes from dispensing medicines to manufacturing to teaching to drug inspector to Drugs Controller. Whatever the designation be awarded to them they are basically pharmacists. 8) Give me name of any hospital where compounding is done. If compounding is not done then how you can call a pharmacist as a compounder. 9) We pharmacists are already open minded that's why most of us forgive Dr. Sushma and therefore they are not replying here. Complex is in Dr. Sushma mind. She is feeling inferiority complex with a Pharm D. pharmacist. 10) Yes I have gone through. For others use and information I am presenting the same here. The intention of Pharma D program is --- a) to provide patient care in cooperation with patients, prescribers, and other members of an interprofessional health care team based upon sound therapeutic principles and evidence-based data, taking into account relevant legal, ethical, social cultural, economic, and professional issues, emerging technologies, and evolving biomedical, pharmaceutical, social or behavioral or administrative, and clinical sciences that may impact therapeutic outcomes. b) to manage and use resources of the health care system, in cooperation with patients, prescribers, other health care providers, and administrative and supportive personnel, to promote health; to provide, assess, and coordinate safe, accurate, and time-sensitive medication distribution; and to improve therapeutic outcomes of medication use. c) to promote health improvement, wellness, and disease prevention in co-operation with patients, communities, at-risk population, and other members of an interprofessional team of health care providers. d) to demonstrate skills in monitoring of the National Health Programmes and schemes, oriented to provide preventive and promotive health care services to the community. e) to develop leadership qualities to function effectively as a member of the health care team organised to deliver the health and family welfare services in existing socio-economic, political and cultural environment. f) to communicate effectively with patients and the community. I do not find anything against the nation or Indian health system or patients or any other professionals. I can not understand why you people are afraid of it. 11) Indian health system is dominated by Medical doctors. Then how can pharmacist create artificial requirements. Policy makers are not fool that they can be influenced artificially. 12) It is clear from your this point that you are not worrying about Indian health system or poor patients of India. You are thinking of about your own position. A nation is bigger than a single person and there is no space for personal interest. 13) Yes law permit only pharmacists to manufacture medicines. Why you are worrying about this. Do you want that Doctors should start manufacturing medicines. Drugs and Cosmetics Act and Pharmacy Act are not just bundle of papers. They are the roadmap how the Indian health system of Indian should work. Be clear in your mind for you are against pharmacist or govt. or Indian health system or Drugs and Cosmetics Act? Yes we can't do diagnosis and we are not even claiming or fighting for that. There is no need of a pharmacist in whole sale because their customers are qualified registered pharmacist likewise there is no need to be a pharmacist to distribute free samples to doctors. How the treatment cost will escalate by just updating the qualification. A pharmacist whether in govt. or in Chemist shop do not charge anything for his service. Pharmacists (govt.) are helping the health system in rural areas where doctors do not like to work because they will not get huge money from poor people. Thanks for suggestion for defining the real job function as a pharmacist. We are trying the same and this is the reason that Pharm D course has been started. Note: It's my suggestion that respect other professionals who are in Health care system in the interest of poor people.

General Secretary Indian Pharmacist Association (IPA) http://www.ipa.medlineindia.com

A.R.Khan's picture

My Dear Doctor (Male/Female), I am glad to see your support and represnting a small group of doctors who are making this noise. I am a pharmacist and have observed Health Care Systems in Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Canada , USA and ofcourse India . I would like answer your challenges for pharmacist role but before i request you to put a face to your profile ( i.e your photo ) and real details, so that i can answer your questions and that shows your integrity on what you are talking here. Please find my answers for some comments you made here. similar to that of a barber when he is called as barber in the present day situation. He will shout at you that you should call him only Hair Dresser. Thats true. People with mental illness we used to call crazy,mental etc. Now a days we need to call Mentally Challenged or Psychologicaly Challenged as time is changed you said. I have 100% empathy on these catergory people . I had lot of mail exchange with Dr.SushamaAnil in this regard. I believe that she is a busy doctor... You are right doc. She has time to write "lot" of mails to you and writing articles but don't have to answers challenges posted to her view point . She is taking second opinion and help from "super specialist". We don't mind . But upload your photo and your actual details on your profile to make it more interesting... Pharmacist is simply a holder of Drug license...Even the packing and dispensing drug is carried out by experienced helping staff in the pharmacies. I am really impressed by your thoughts about another health care professionals . What exactly MBBS doctors knows. He only learns about drugs from Medical Respresentives and learn few drug names here & there and write same prescriptions again and again. We pharmacists clearly know quality of doctors in India . Wow ! Good to hear a following great words from you no one will be willing to escalate the cost of treatment by adding avoidable heavy weight entities like Pharm-D in the health care system. Are you guys any better than RMP doctors if you look at cost perspective? Both get visited by MRs to get drug information . Atleast RMP doctors do not keep dead bodies on ventilation or ICU for days to collect money since your "well known" hopitals occupancy rate is low in those perticular days. Just one and there are countless examples to quote . Lets see the quality of "great" doctors in our great India: 1)Karnataka: MBBS students pay Rs 1 lakh to pass http://ibnlive.in.com/news/karnataka-mbbs-students-pay-1-lakh-to-pass/15... 2) 23 MBBS students caught copying in Udaipur http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2011-02-11/jaipur/28541359_1... and lets see the head of Medical Council of India (MCI) 1800 Crores and 1.5 tons of gold was recovered by CBI from Dr Ketan Desai's house ( Hero of bribing industry!!! ) See the news: Ketan Desai, president of the Medical Council of India, and three others arrested by the CBI in a Rs.2-crore bribery case . http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article408758.ece Atleast, pharmacy professionals making their money with talents . By law , only in manufactuiring and Q.C. , you need a pharmacist. So, may be 2 to 5 pharmacy grads are required by law in a medium scale pharma company. All major pharma industries have thousands of pharmacy gradutes as their employees in departments like Regulatory , Marketing , Formulation Development, R&D, clinical trials etc. So many pharmacy gradutes with about 10+ years experience making 1 lakh per month. This is mainly due to their talent and basics they got at pharmacy schools. Because of pharmacy graduates only, India is no.1 in global drug manufacturing and exporting . . In USA about 500 drugs are available just for 5 dollars for one month supply without Insurance. This is possible only due to Indian pharma companies (US FDA approved) backed up by thousands of talented and hardworking "pharmacy" graduates. Pharmacist just don't make money showing 1947 certificate . We need to prove every day in pharmaceutical industry to justify our existance. So my dear doc, please upload your picture and your profile, i will give you reply on other profession related questions you raised . They are valid from your point view.
Vtharavath's picture

Mr.Bhupendra The Heading which you have given to your answer itself shows that you have nothing to define at present by job. Dear... you are not a Pharm-D holder ! ! ! ! ! ! There is a story in our place - A man died after the bite of a king cobra and his body was carried to the grave yard for cremation through a paddy field. At this time there where a lot of water snakes (they don't have poison at all) who were shouting at the dead body saying that "this is the punishment you receive if you play with us"-. Your arguments are like that. You have shown your "range" here. I requested you to talk in the "real sense". Your talks are based not on the present situation. I did not ask your position after Pharm-D. And that's what Dr.Sushama has pointed out in her article about Pharm-D. Your statement in the item No:4 is illegal, which you are not supposed to do. It is very clear that you are unaware of the Acts related to your profession. Please carefully go through atleast the Pharmacy Act 1948, so that you will come to know that your job is compounding drugs and that you are doing business. Now itself you please read the section 31. Qualifications for entry on first register,under the CHAPTER IV - REGISTRATION OF PHARMACISTS of The Pharmacy Act, 1948 ( I wonder how you got your registration without even reading it ! ! ! ). Atleast you do that and understand who all can be a Pharmacist. If you are incapable of understanding the entire Act, I will quote a few lines for your convenience and try to understand that. _____________________________________________________________________ "31. Qualifications for entry on first register. (b) holds a degree of an Indian University other than a degree in pharmacy or pharmaceutical chemistry, and has been engaged in THE COMPOUNDING OF DRUGS IN A HOSPITAL OR DISPENSARYor other place in which drugs are regularly dispensed on prescriptions of medical practitioners for a total period of not less than three years, or (c) has passed an examination recognised as adequate by the State Government for COMPOUNDERS or dispensers, or (d) has been engaged in THE COMPOUNDING OF DRUGS in a hospital or dispensary or other place in which drugs are regularly dispensed on prescriptions of medical practitioners for a total period of not less than five years prior to the date notified under sub-section (2) of section 30." ________________________________________________________________________ Don't tell me about your sincerity towards the health profession. The pharmacist's relation with drug mafia has been exposed recently in Mysore. They sell DRUGS even to school children. Is it your commitment to the society???? Now you have said that pharmacists are not compounding drugs. I can tell you that a grocer is doing much more than you. Atleast he has to weigh the articles, to pack it and then to deliver. Pharmacists are not doing anything like that and not even doing the assigned works by definition. But carry out illegal activities like treating patients which is already stated by you. I tell you, your role is only in the paper. Doctors don't need the help of a Pharm-D person to communicate with patients. He is very much capable of doing what he is assigned for. Better we stop our discussion here, because you are concealing the facts and talking nonsense. Thank you for the discussion.
Bhupendra's picture

Dear vtharavath, Your effervescent reply proved that it is waste of time to discuss with you. You have set your mind and you can not understand or try to understand what we are talking about. Since you can not grasp the facts you are replying in such a way. From your comments it is clear that in your opinion everyone in govt. and in health system in India is foolish and they should work according to what you want. Whole health system be given to you and only you will diagnose, dispense, manufacture, sell, distribute medicine. Do x-ray, ultra sound and each and everything of para medical professionals do. Regarding item no 4 is concerned. It is reality in Indian rural areas. Go there and you will realize what the ground reality is. Anyone who is reading your comments can easily tell who is talking nonsense. And finally, just give answer that why you are afraid of Pharm D. when nothing is going to change and pharmacists will remain compounder. Why ?

General Secretary Indian Pharmacist Association (IPA) http://www.ipa.medlineindia.com

Vtharavath's picture

Dear Khan Better you talk with your colleagues. You have not even gone through the Pharmacy Act once. Atleast go through the CHAPTER IV of the Pharmacy Act thoroughly and understand who is a Pharmacist! ! ! ! Also, read CHAPTER III of the same Act clause 26A (b) from which you can understand what you have to do.
A.R.Khan's picture

Sure My dear Doc, Please upload your picture as requested and i will follow your suggestion
Dixon Thomas's picture

Working in a team is challenging. As a team leader a Physician/Surgeon has to manage other doctors, nurses, clinical pharmacists, lab, radiology, dietitian etc. We get best results when everyone contribute their role and finally when the leader coordinate all the efforts. So good teamwork gives welfare to all.

Mr. Dixon Thomas, M. Pharm, M. S., RPh Assoc. Prof., RIPER 

 

Vtharavath's picture

Dear Dixon You are doing nothing in the health care chain as you mentioned in "SOME POINTS TO ADD", except in few hospitals and pharmacies still compounding of drugs by compounders are taking place for specific purpose, especially skin lotions and ointments.You are the holders of Drug license only. You are trading the drugs in the name of dispensing. So even to day few of the pharmacists are compounding drugs. This shows your unawareness in your own field ! ! ! !. //If you feel that compounder is a nasty professional// We never consider compounder as a nasty professional but you who belong to that category felt bad in calling you as compounder and responded. If the Pharamcy Act 1948 has amended ask your PCI to host the amendment in their web site so that future confusions can be avoided. http://www.pci.nic.in/RulesRegulations/PharmacyAct1948/Chapter4.aspx I think you never visited this page before. ! ! ! ! ! ! Dixon, Don't you even know the doctors are thorough with the subject PHARMACOLOGY? The knowledge of which is more than sufficient to provide a good quality treatment, drug counseling etc better than what you are preaching. As Dr.Sushama has pointed out, it is better if a Pharm-D person or a pharmacist be a drug advisor from the part of pharmaceutical companies along with the Medical Representatives (they can carry out their regular marketing and drug advice)in the INDIAN SCENARIO. You will be able to provide better drug advice to doctors WHEN EVER A NEW MOLECULE IS INTRODUCED by a drug Manufacturer. This is the actual requirement in the health care system .A doctor is well capable of executing any work he is assigned for. This will solve the entire problem in the health sector that you have raised. I am not anonymous. My name is Dr.Viswanathan Tharavath.I am a Chennai based Paediatrician.
Bhupendra's picture

Put your face first. Why you are afraid of putting your face on your profile.

General Secretary Indian Pharmacist Association (IPA) http://www.ipa.medlineindia.com

Vtharavath's picture

SCARED OF YOU ? ! ? ! ? ! ? ! ? ! ? ! ? !...IT'S FUNNY......REALLY FUNNY...
A.R.Khan's picture

A doctor is well capable of executing any work he is assigned for. This will solve the entire problem in the health sector that you have raised. You are right !. You haven't even learned how to post comments just below the comment after all these discussions...
Dixon Thomas's picture

We have seen in history that the doctors are well respected in society as they alleviate suffering of patients. As science and technology is growing and evidence based medicine is being the trend, clinical pharmacists could help doctors in this noval cause. Growth in education and practice we are observing in medical and paramedical disciplines, which is appreciable. We all help each other.

Mr. Dixon Thomas, M. Pharm, M. S., RPh Assoc. Prof., RIPER 

 

Vtharavath's picture

I am only a temporary visitor in this site...Only for this discussion I created a user..I am not interested to continue in this site for long...Actually I am not at all interested in this discussion as the TRUTH will not vanish by discussions. But the collective and offensive response from you and your friends and the truth in the article / mails of Dr.Sushama made me to respond. I feel, it is not worth taking pain in scanning my photograph and uploading it for this purpose alone. What is the relevancy of my photograph in this discussion? Can you be sure of the genuineness of uploaded photographs? If you are so interested to see my photograph, I will upload it whenever I find time to get it scanned.
A.R.Khan's picture

The reason we are asking you as we need to make sure you are WORTH answering. Quick search in google shows this matching close to your behavior here. DR.Vishwanathan, Paeditric neurologist at child trust hospital. Chennai Complaints - Does not have the basic etiquette of a doctor http://www.consumercomplaints.in/complaints/drvvishwanathan-paeditric-ne... This is the comment made by his fellow doctor about DR.Vishwanathan. After me paying Rs.300/- and waiting to see him for nearly four hours, is he doing service by shouting at me in front of his assistant doctor and paramedical staff and throwing off my file? and bunch of comments like this Dr Vishwanathan is no doubt arrogant. I was referred to him for the kid - from Neyveli Lignite Corporation - 2 years back- and he was more interested in fighting with other doctors at Child Trust whether the referral was for him or for other child specialist. . That is the reason we ask you to upload your correct details and photo to verify . Pharmacist knows how to counsel Mentally Challenged customers.
Vtharavath's picture

CULTURELESS
A.R.Khan's picture

Thank you. Please identify your self with 'real' details . So that we can understand you and your "culture".
Vtharavath's picture

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Dixon Thomas's picture

Opportunity for access to a pharmacy or hospital is high now. Patients can find many types in many places. More facilities and advancements are the number one survival strategy for the organizations. Clinical Pharmacists are part of the advancement and now the physician or surgeon have a clinical pharmacist in their team, they are more powerful than others who do not have. I conculde, this drug technology service, well qualifies people could be very useful to the patient in a leading, advancing doctor's team. Pharm.D was introduced in the west around 50 years back. But till now no where in the world, pharmacists do have rights to diagnosis or prescribing. In some cases, some doctors give permissions to prescribe some less-risk medicines under their supervision. Such permissions are given to nurses also. So Doctors, nurses, and pharmacists has clear roles to play without overlapping. 

Best wishes,

Mr. Dixon Thomas, M. Pharm, M. S., RPh Assoc. Prof., RIPER 

 

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